tv Piers Morgan Tonight CNN February 22, 2013 9:00pm-10:00pm EST
that does it for this edition of "360." we'll see you one hour from now at 10:00 p.m. eastern. an in-depth hour on the case against oscar pistorius and the death of his girlfriend reeva steenkamp. thanks for watching. "piers morgan tonight" starts right now. tonight freedom for the blade runner. >> i have come to the conclusion that the accused has made a case to be released on bail. we know oscar's version of what happened that tragic night and we know that that is the truth. >> what does the decision say about the charges against oscar pistorius. i talk to the people who knew him the best.
>> he's an icon. he will always be known as the blade runner. >> where does the case go from here? i debate it with gloria alred. who walks away with the gold guy? i'll be on the red carpet before and after the show and tonight i'll give you my picks for hollywood's biggest night. this is "piers morgan tonight." eight days after shooting reena steenkamp, oscar pistorius is released on bail tonight. his home is a crime scene and he's barred from going back there. he must also surrender his guns. the murder is thinking this is a
clear victory. we have the latest. it was a dramatic day in court today. i was watching as you were for the two hours that the magistrate went through, i guess, the arguments everyone around the world has been having with themselves and others. in the end, he led oscar pistorius go. what's the significance of pistorius getting bail at this stage? >> i don't think it surprised the legal experts. i've been getting opinions and most people thought he would get bail and i'll tell you why. in a way this bail hearing was a bit of a legal ploy. the prosecution kind of admitted it today in the courtroom that by pushing for it to be on a higher charge of premeditated murder, they put the onus on the defense of oscar pistorius's team to have to prove that he wasn't a flight risk and also he
had to then put across an affidavit. so what this was really about was getting pistorius's side of the story on paper, six, seven, eight months before a trial. you can say pistorius is out, that's a goal r for the defense team. but actually it's also a bit of a goal for the prosecution because what they now have is essentially their most valuable piece of evidence and that's oscar pistorius's version of the events. >> which could be dynamite if any evidence emerges that we haven't already seen that actually gives some kind of contradiction. if it doesn't, it could be very strong for oscar pistorius. if nothing comes forward to contradict his version of event, you'd have to say he has a strong likelihood, i would think, of having a good chance of getting off. in terms of what happened today, one of the oddities of the bail conditions was the restriction on drinking alcohol.
should we read into that or is that a consistent thing? >> it's not. i think a lot of that had a double take when we heard that. did the magistrate explain why? and he didn't. this is highly unusual. we know that oscar pistorius's defense team is going to challenge this bail condition next week. they also want to try to get the amount lowered, but they are also saying this is unusual and unclear as to why this is. so there will be more on that next week, i think. >> finally, robin, you spoke to lots of south africans about this. you covered every detail of the hearings. it seems to me from twitter and facebook everyone is split down the middle here. is that the sense you're getting among south africans? >> it is. i think there is this sense, and it sounds sort of blah, but this
si whose side are you on. young people who saw him as an inspirational character are still supporting him. it's the older generation who perhaps is saying this is unacceptable. he should be behind bars. that's going to play out in the next few days. >> it's been fascinating. we have almost had a mini trial. very unusual. certainty wouldn't have happened here in america. thank you for joining me. >> thanks a lot. a good friend of oscar pistorius, we spoke yesterday when we didn't know what would happen. he's been given bail. you must be relieved for your friend. >> yes, it's obviously good news for oscar and his family. it gives them enough time to go home and actually give him a lot of comfort. i think that's what oscar needs at this time. a lot of people have been -- it's important for him to have
comfort from those that are close to him. >> you tweeted after the decision, i believe oscar's statement in court and as a friend i'm behind him. you'll be aware how devisive this case is. do you have absolute confidence that oscar is telling the truth? >> like i said before, the onus is on oscar. he knows what happened that night. and being a friend, you have to sportd support your friend no matter what it is. you have to support him either way. >> there was a big mistake made by the police, the investigator claimed to have found testosterone. it turns out to have been a perfectly legal herbal remedy. you noknow about this. what is that? >> it's basically used to fight the means of fatigue and
tiredness. when you're an athlete and training a lot, you suffer from being tired. this basically just helps kick start your natural testosterone levels and help you fight fatigue. it's perfectly legal. top athletes get tested all the time as well as in competition drug testing. it's perfectly legal. >> oscar has been banned from drinking alcohol while he's on bail. were you surprised at that? it's not always a requirement. clearly they believe he may have a problem with alcohol? we don't know that, but it seems an unusual thing. what can you tell me about oscar and alcohol? >> that's the magistrate's decision and what the magistrate wants during this bail. oscar is a normal human being. we have fun. as a person, he's never in my company has alcohol changed him as a person. never around me has he ever changed in any way when having
alcohol in his system at any time. >> he does drink alcohol then? >> i'm sure when he goes out and goes for dinner with his friends and family, we'll have an occasional drink, but he's not an alcoholic if that's what you're asking. >> no, but his defense counsel was suggesting he didn't drink at all, which i know from people that know him is not true. we can watch a sound byte. this is what was said here. >> are you ready for the next stage? >> we don't know. >> how concerned are you about the issue of alcohol? >> he doesn't drink so that's fine. >> what are your concerns? >> i haven't seen the conditions. >> he says he doesn't drink. would you say the reality is he would have alcohol just not to access? >> that's obviously something he would do in his private time or
off time. large amounts of the year he's away for a couple months. he's competing and training. so during that time, i do believe he wouldn't drink at all. he's definitely not a person who goes out and goes to clubs and that type of thing. he spends a lot of time with his friends. i don't think he is a major drinker or does drink a lot. >> are you looking forward to catching up with oscar? will you be able to see him? have you reached out to him or his family? >> briefly spoke to his brother just to send my wishes and that my thoughts are with him and his family as they are going through a hard time. if i get an opportunity, i would be very happy and grateful to see oscar. just to give a bit of comfort. a lot of people are doubting him and looking down on him. at the end of the day, he's still an icon and will always be known as the blade runner. i think he just needs a lot of comfort. if i get an opportunity, i would love to see him, yes. >> kevin, you're a good friend
and i appreciate you coming on the show. we appreciate that. >> thank you for having me. >> reeva's manager joins me on the phone. i'm very sorry for the terrible loss of your client reeva. what was your reaction to what happened today with oscar pistorius getting bail? >> my response i think was like many others in south africa. it was mixed. i must say, though, we have to trust the legal process. it's takes its course. and i can only just say that justice ultimately has to prevail. it's a waiting game now. >> did you meet oscar? and if you did, what did you make of him? >> i didn't know him intimately. i met him twice. like most others, i found him to be charming and friendly.
so that was basically what i saw of him. >> had reeva given you any indication of any problems with oscar at all in the whole time that you knew she was seeing him? >> i tried to keep my discussions with reeva on a business level. you know, we were her agents and her publicists and the conversations that we had were based on her career, where she was going, how we were going to get her there and not so much the intimate details of her relationship with oscar. >> she was obviously beautiful, intelligent, former law student. and with a whole career ahead of her. how good a career do you think she could have had in terms of the planning you had for reeva? >> she was on the brink of explosion. and i say this, we had put together the most incredible career framework for her.
she was about to explode starting with the reality show. we had lined up for interviews for her as a host on various lifestyle shows. we also had a whole host of talks. she was very passionate about women-related issues about making herself heard. she had a very loud voice. she had so many passions she wanted to get out there and talk about. and those are some of the issues that we were in the process of confirming for her. as a matter of fact, on the morning of the 14th, she was supposed to start off with with one of her first talks about this issue at a school in johan nasburg. then we know what happened. so her career was destined for success. she was just about to explode. >> it's an absolute tragedy. haung very much for joining me. >> it's a pleasure. next, is oscar pistorius
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it isn't proper evidence before me relating to the public perception of the matter. i have come to the conclusion that the accused has made a case to be released on bail. >> the oscar pistorius case is already a media circus. a star charged with a murder. but is he getting special treatment? are people forgetting about the real victim here? joining me is gloria allred. we'll start with you. you're in the nonbeliever camp in regards to oscar pistorius. why don't you believe him? >> piers, i think the magistrate raised substantial questions today. even though he did release pistorius on bail, he asked questions that are extremely relevant. why didn't oscar notice that his girlfriend was not in the bed? why didn't he flee if he thought there was an intruder there? why did he not yell out, who is there before he shot four shots
into the door? these are questions that need to be answered. there are holes in oscar pistorius's story. >> your response to that? >> there are holes in his story and if the holes are validated by the empirical evidence, he will be convicted. his lawyer took an e enormous risk. the lawyer put in the affidavit firming up the story. that risk got him bail. that's why he got bail. the judge said the reason i'm giving him bail primarily is because he did the unusual thing of putting an affidavit forward locking in his case. that may end up haunting him if evidence comes back that doesn't support that. the prosecution did the same thing. they wanted to make sure they won the bail so they overcharged him with willful premeditated murder. because they wanted to increase their chances of getting bail.
so both sides may have hurt their long-term chances of winning by trying to do what they do in celebrity cases and that is to get short-term results, good headlines and immediate gratification. that's the risk of having cases where celebrities are on trial. >> gloria, here's my issue with the whole case. the one thing i come back to, at the moment, there's no hard evidence suggesting any motive on oscar pistorius's part to do what he did. without that, is it fair to convict him? >> absolutely. because motive is not necessary to prove. it's always helpful if motive can be proouven, but it's not necessary. she has a cell phone in the bathroom. the bathroom is locked. my experience with a lot of women is that if they go into the bathroom and the door is locked and they have their cell phone, often it's because they want to make a call for help to their girlfriends or to some member of their family. >> but we know she didn't make a
call. >> whether or not she was able to make the call, whether or not she wanted to make the call, it's often the case that they go in there for the purpose of wanting to make the call. >> so that's the point. gloria, who is a very good lawyer, maybe twice, she said women often -- that's not the way you make a case beyond a reasonable doubt. that's the way you persuade historians as to what may have happened. but to win this case, the prosecution is going to have to prove motive because you can't convict anybody realistically of premeditated murder unless they had a motive. it's easy to demonstrate that a person might have flipped out, might have been in an argument, but that's not going to be a premeditated murder case. so what we have seen is when you have celebrity justice, it really affects how both sides try the case. and both sides did things at the initial phase of this case that may come back to haunt them.
now the winner has been pistorius's defense lawyer. >> i agree and disagree. there are other elements and sometimes it's worse for the prosecution in a celebrity case because often they have to prove not just guilt beyond a reasonable doubt but guilt beyond any doubt, which is not fair. it's very difficult. there's a young woman who is dead here. she's 29 years old. >> the the legal team, it seems to me, have been much more competent so far than the police were. and that in terms of public opinion has moved from almost unanimous sense that oscar pistorius was a cold-blooded killer to an element of doubt creeping in because the police e led by this hapless investigator made so many mistakes. >> but remember too, this is not a jury trial. so gloria's argument that there's a dead woman won't have any impact on the judge.
of course, there's a dead woman. it might have been an accident. but the fact she's dead and we are sympathetic for her, won't have any impact on a professional judge or a decent judge in south africa. what will have to be proved dispassionately is that the forensic evidence is inconsistent with his affidavit. but you don't put in an affidavit unless you're absolutely certain as to what happened. it is very persuasive. if he was telling his lawyer all kind of inconsistent stories, the lawyer would never have allowed him to put in the affidavit. the lawyer had to be certain that the forensic evidence will confirm to the affidavit and that's why the judge was influenced by it. a jury may not have been, but a judge was rightly influenced by the affidavit. unfortunately, you're backtracking. your suggestion earlier was he was rewarded with bail because he put his case in the affidavit. if that's true, i take issue
with that. let me just say, i take issue with a lot else that happened in this courtroom today. for example, the idea that because some of his pals might have acted as character witnesses and suggested through declarations that somehow they had a loving relationship that maybe he wouldn't have any motive to kill, but nobody really knows to a certainty what happens in a relationship with two partners are alone in bed in the middle of the night. sometimes people argue, but they present a brave face to the world and never argue in front of other people. so i don't think it -- >> let's take a quick break. hold your fire. hold your response. let's take a quick break and get alan's response to the damning allegation from gloria that you're going backwards. smart ab. i tried weight loss plans... but their shakes aren't always made for people with diabetes. that's why there's glucerna hunger smart shakes.
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that's why he's free tonight. back with gloria and alan. you were accused of going backwards, what was your response to gloria? >> i don't even know how to go backwards. i always move forward. if the question was do i think maybe he did it? what's my best guess? i might degree agree with gloria. there are a lot of questions. >> unlike the o.j. simpson case, o.j. just refused to accept any responsibility for the death. whereas here, there's a clear admission that oscar pistorius did kill reeva steenkamp. the only question is why he did it. there are two things to consider. one is the culture of violence in ha city. a particular problem with crime by people intruding into the homes of the rich and famous and
successful. so oscar pistorius talked before about a paranoia. but secondly, the medical research council says three women are killed by their partner every day. >> and the prosecutor just pointed out as well in this case that recently there was the rape and murder of a 17-year-old in south africa. so it's really important to understand that there's a lot of violence against women as well as fear of intruders in the home. so let's not minimize that because that's also extremely important. why did -- >> that's like apples and oranges. >> the four shots thing i find if he genuinely thought it was an intruder about to attack him, look at the number of cases in america where there are states for stand your ground. i don't think there's a
limitation on the number of bullets fire ed. >> why didn't he flee? why didn't he see if his girlfriend was okay and help her to run out the door? >> it's based on calm, rational thought. alan, you dealt with many cases like these complications. isn't the reality in the heat of the moment, nobody knows how someone is going to behave. >> you can't really infer guilt from these aspects. consider what gloria said. there are two facts. one that people are afraid about their homes and a lot of men commit violence against women. the fact that men commit violence is totally irrelevant and will never be admitted into this case because it it doesn't tell us anything about whether he committed violence. the fact that he made personally been in fear because he was within that small category of people whose homes are invaded is very relevant. one is irrelevant to his guilt
or innocence. the other of which is dramatically relevant. and you hear them put together as if they are similar. they have no relationship whatsoever to each other. >> i would respectfully disagree and i think what you said was utterly irrelevant to the issue of violence against women. >> we're not talking about violence against women. >> please don't interrupt me. i would appreciate it if the prosecutor is able to prove a prior history of violence against a woman in his life. if in fact, that becomes admissible it's most certainly relevant. >> it's not admissible. there's no court in the world that will admit the fact that a man hit a woman as evidence that he may then have killed her. the only evidence is pattern evidence. if you can show he had a pattern of treating women in a certain way, shooting at them through the door, threatening to kill them with guns, maybe that comes in.
but certainly you can't get admitted into evidence the fact that there's a lot of violence by other people. that may make for a nice jury argument, but no judge is going to consider that in deciding did he premeditate and decide to kill this woman. >> we'll see whether the judge agrees with you or not and whether the judge thinks that he or she is rational or not. >> we will. and it's very kpcomplicated. and my next guest is someone who hung out with oscar pistorius and found out some interesting stuff about him which contradicts the conventional theories about what kind of man oscar was like. for now, gloria and alan, thank you very much.
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we're learning more about oscar pistorius and the details are revealing. a "new york times" contributor michael zuk love has spent a lot of time with the blade runner. i interviewed oscar myself. it was interesting to e read because my impression of him was a charming, unassuming, softly spoken, polite young man, at the top of his game.
seemingly with no dark side to him. clearly, there are flashes that you picked up on of a different kind of oscar pistorius. we saw a bit of it in the olympics. do you think the the public image of oscar pistorius is misleading? is is he more volatile than we may imagine? >> i don't think the public image is misleading. i found him like you did. very engaging, very magnetic and respectful of everyone around him. but he's a young guy and he's an athlete and he's very intense. so certainly i saw that side of him that's tightly coiled and the side of him that a lot of athletes have. but i didn't see anger though. i think anyone who says now anyone could have seen this coming, i don't believe that. i didn't see it coming. i spent a lot of time around him. i don't think anyone else did
either. even some of the things coming from the police that have come from the police that sort of indicate, some of them have been knocked down. >> there were a few things that struck me from your piece. he clearly liked guns and liked going to ranges and firing them. does he like them to the point of obsession and how would you describe his relationship with guns? >> i think he was obsessed with his own safety and his own vulnerability. this is not the first time that he spoke of fearing an intruder in his house. i think that's a function of living in south africa, which is a very dangerous society with a big gulf between rich and poor and people with means as oscar had feel vulnerable. it may also be a function of someone who was born without lower legs and does not have biological lower legs. i don't want to psychoanalyze from this distance, but maybe that makes him feel a certain
way, especially when he's in bed without those legs. and i don't mean to make excuses for him at all. what he's done at best is reckless and negligent and tragic. >> one of the things i've thought about is that if he as he claims was on his stunts and not using his prosthetic legs, it is more understandable he wouldn't have seen his girlfriend in bed, it's possible, depending on the height of the bed. this is a man who is not a normal guy. he doesn't have legs. if he was genuinely on his stumps fearing an intruder, then his construct of what happened becomes more plausible. >> you know, it's so hard to say. i think his construct, as you put it, is hard to believe. it's hard for me to imagine not knowing whose in bed with you. on the other hand, it's a new relationship. but i weigh that against --
first of all, i don't want to believe he murdered someone with intent because that isn't the man that i think i met. so i just didn't see it. so the implausibility of his version of events to some extent is i weigh against what is more implausible to me that he had this malice in him that would shoot someone in cold blood. also oscar loved his life. he loved being oscar pistorius, liked the money, liked the fame. and you know, i would think there would be a part of him that would say, i'm not just ending one life here i'm ending this life of mine, which i really love. >> terms of your time you spent with him, did you drink alcohol with him? his defense counsel seems to think he doesn't drink alcohol. but his friend said he would when he wasn't in training. did you get the occasion he
would drink a lot? >> it was in the lead-up to the olympics. he had some wine around the house, but he very specifically told me he wasn't not drinking at that time in those months because he said i train so hard, alcohol has the impact of diminishing your training a little bit and why should i give up anything for a glass of wine because i'm working so hard to be as fit as i can be. . >> in terms of his behavior around women, did you see anything toward that regard? >> i didn't. when i was with him, he had just broken off a long-time relationship. there was another woman who was with us at one point and i think that was a fairly casual relationship. in my experience, oscar was very respectful to everyone including men and women. i think that his closest relationship in this world is with his sister.
that doesn't mean he did this, didn't do this, but he's a relational person and a respectful one. >> certainly from my encounter with him, i would concur. he's a fascinating case because you are left with these two alternativ alternatives. either you believe oscar pistorius and his version of events, which is implausible to some but may be true, or you believe this polite and charming young man that you and i found turns out to be a cold-blooded murd murder. both are extraordinary scenarios. but i'm grateful to you for joining me. i think i share your shock about it all. >> thank you. coming up next, predict the winners. my academy awards all star panel. the road to gold. people have doubts about taking aspirin for pain.
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drink on television. >> poll hollywood's biggest night is two nights away. the 85th academy awards, oscars are being polished and i'll be here sunday night to cover it for cnn. kim masters joins us. where are you with us? a lot of good movies this year. a lot of conjecture about who may win. >> unlike other years, it it doesn't seem like everything is a lock. the year that forest whitt ker won every award under the sun. this year some of the key categories could go a couple different ways. that could be the final thing that the academy needs to breakthrough and get ratings back. it's not about skewing younger or having a younger host or opening up the best picture category. it's about a little unpredictability. >> they are using the success of
the musical-related stuff. what do you think is skewing it towards more musical performance? >> i hear the length is quite long. and i think they are talking about closing the show with a duet with kristen chen witch and seth mccfar lan. >> i think it will be amazing. you have to point. the musical stuff is fine, but if you're skewing it to a younger demographic, is it sensible? >> they are balancing it with the cast of "the avengers" as well as there's a tribute to the 50th anniversary of james bond. it's a give and take. you're getting an older audience with the tradition musical numbers but hopefully bringing in younger. . >> we're being told we should call it the oscars. finally. let's go through some of the t
categories. best actor, daniel day-lewis is a show-in. but do you see any surprises? >> not at all. hast one of the locked categories. whoever has that -- >> hugh jackman could pull a surprise. >> never in the movies like this. he's unrecognizable at times throughout it. it's a show that helps you determine who is going to win at the oscars. when people win at the sags for playing real-life people, jamie fox in "ray." they go on to win at the academy awards. >> playing a dead famous person is the key. there's one after the other. >> best actress, this could be a surprise. jennifer lawrence, brilliant in
"silver linings play book." >> i think the surprise could be if she were american, she would have this thing locked up. she's the oldest nominee ever. she plays an unflinching role of this woman stricken with a stroke and is incapacitied. it's oscar bait. she's not american. it's also a film that's hard to watch. so maybe some of the academy members who are not -- >> i can't see the academy letting somebody who afears in a french-sounding movie win. >> dark horse. >> she doesn't have harvey weinstein in her corner. she's been able to champion performances. jennifer lawrence in her rise reminds me of gwen earth paltrow. >> i still say that. >> jessica is jennifer.
>> ballroom dancing cures mental illness. >> another mention? >> my favorite film of the year. it's the most memorable and most emotional. but i think for someone at that age and career, it's welcome to the industry. >> every single person in broadcasting secretly hopes she doesn't win so they don't have to repeat the name. >> best actor in a supporting role. tommy lee jones was brilliant in "lincoln." but i'm hearing robert de niro. >> he's my pick. this is the most difficult category. all five nominees have won before. it's been 21 years since de niro was even nominated. if he wins for, it will be his third win. it's the most relatable of all the the roles. i think it's the role that people can identify with. it reminds them of their own
father. my dad is a sports fan. there were moments in this movie i thought of him. i think it will be r for harvey in his corner. >> if there's a dark horse, alan arkin because he's a producer. >> he's very good. "argo" is a huge movie. best actress in supporting role? >> anyone but anne hathaway? let's move on. director? this is where the academy just completely got this wrong. because ben affleck should have been nominate d. however, the fact that he hasn't been could help the movie win best movie. >>people in the future will say how can i get my director snubbed because there's been such a wave of sympathy. he's handled it so well. he's worked the crowd and been humorous and played it pitch perfect.
>> we have a clip from jimmy carter about "argo." he was president at the time the real story happened. listen to this. >> it's a great drama and i hope it gets an academy award for best film because it deserves it. >> more great performances. steven spielberg for "lincoln." david russell, passionate man. great thought-provoking theme. this is a tough category. >> 27 years old, first time out, was involved in some music. cast of baker to play the father in the movie. >> where's your money? >> i think spielberg gets the sympathy vote. >> for spielberg? >> but he's been so snubbed. the producers guild, screen writers guild, i think people
feel guilty. >> i thought it was a great movie. brilliant historic movie. i didn't know a lot of the background to the vote about slavery and seeing what happened and smart not to include the assassination of lincoln in the end. >> you have a mention of it, but it wasn't a part of the movie. >> i think it should have ended sooner and it felt like an ending when he's walking out of the white house and that would have been a good move. it's been a critique. >> just a tiny mention of it. finally, best picture. >> give me a name. >> "argo." >> thank you both very much. we'll see. coming up next, i'll give you my oscar picks. e have saved money with...ohhh... ...with geico... ohhh...sorry! director's voice: here we go. from the top. and action for over 75 years people have saved money with gecko so....
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